Susanna Margaretha Nagel

Notes:

<p> </p><p><p>His full given name appears to have been Bartholomew. He is recorded in the land transfer records of Ettensweiler in 1652, probably for selling land there; the land was probably his father's. Those records show his name as Bartholomäus Probst, a more correct German spelling.</p><p><p></p></p><p><p>He must have left Ettensweiler for Der Pfalz shortly thereafter, for he was married in January 1653 in Kandel. Bill Brobst has a copy of the marriage record, in the German Pfalz file.</p></p><p><p></p></p><p>Will was probated in 1715 in Kandel.</p>

Bartholomew married Susanna Fischer 18 Jan 1653, Kandel,Pfalz,Germany. Susanna (daughter of Bartholomew Probst and Susanna Fischer) was born 14 Feb 1630, Kandel, Der Pflaz, Germany; was christened 14 Feb 1630, Evangelisch,Kandel,Pfalz,Bavaria; died 25 Apr 1705, Kandel, Pfalz, Bayern (Bavaria), now Germany. [Group Sheet]

Notes:

 

Rudolph's wife's name is unknown. They moved from Bern to Germany around 1625 to Ettischweyl im Allgau (Ettischen) where he was a "Gemeinsman" or citizen. His only son Bartholomew left there to move to Kandel.

There is a question as to whether Rudolph was actually a son of Niklaus and Margreth, and a grandson of Hans (1531). LuAnne Brobst Staheli shows that lineage. However, the baptismal records do not show him in that family. But, if Rudolph was baptized by a travelling minister, that minister might have recorded the baptism at the minister's home church, thereby leaving the Probst's home church record vacant in that regard. Ms. Carolyn Price has challenged this birth line quite strongly on that basis. The record obtained from the church in Germany bears her out -- the name "Rudolph" does not appear in the list of children. Bill Rutledge may have just assigned him in that position because it fit so well! He may also have been the son of Benedikt Probst (1551) who lived in Lutzenfluh, Bern, Switzerland; the father of that Benedikt was Benedikt (1529), Hans' brother! The records show that Rudolph would have fit just as nicely in that family as well. Which family? Don't know, but it seems quite likely that it was one or the other.

The parish records, per Dr. Robert Oehler, Kasernenstrasse 21D, Bern, state: "Rudolph resided in Bern, then in Ettischweyl, Wangen, Kandel, and Minfeld, Germany." But did he move to Kandel with Barthel, or did he stay in Ettischweyl? It appears more likely that he stayed and died in Ettischweyl.

However, another record states he was born in Ettischweyl! Dr. Werner Esser of Kandel, writing to Alice-Ann Askew in 1992, states "Rudolph Probst ws born about 1590 in Ettischeyl next to the city of Wangen. He bases that on the Lineage Succession List dated feb 29 1992 from Kandel. It may be that since he came from Ettischweyl it was assumed by the Kandel authorities that he was born there. It seems well documented, though, that Rudolph was born in Switzerland. Further, the record of the land sale by his son, Bartholomew, in 1652, clearly states that the family origin was in the region of Bern.

Only one son, Barthel, is known in Brobst genealogical circles. There may have been other children. Certainly, it would have been unusual in those days to have only one child in the family. Hackworth/Staheli believe he was the ninth child, but that documentation has not been verified. Kandel records show only one son, Barthel, but then Rudolph never lived in Kandel.

What was Rudolph's profession? If we knew, that might help with the question of how the Probsts came to be Lutheran. Swiss Protestants generally came from the cities, but the farmers were Catholic. Since Barthel was a potter, does that mean that his father was also a potter? If so, then Rudolph perhaps would have been a Lutheran city person. In fact, the records unearthed by Alice-Ann Askew indicated that Rudolph was a "Gemeinsmann" or citizen of Ettischweyl. That term was usually meant a city dweller, not a rural dweller. A lot of conjecture here.

His death date is not certain. Did he die before 1653, causing Barthel to move on? Or did Barthel leave him behind, and he died sometime after Barthel left for Kandel? Bartholomew sold some land (probably Rudolph's) in Ettensweiler in 1652, then moved to Kandel. That might be an indication that Rudolph died in 1652, Barthel sold the land, and then split. But the Kandel Lineage Succession List mentioned above implies that Rudolph may have lived in Kandel for some time, although his death is not recorded there.

On balance of the facts, I believe that Rudolph was born in 1595 in Siselen, Kanton Berne, Switzrland; married there, and moved to Ettischweyl im Allgau, where he died around 1651/2.

Notes:

<p> </p><p><p>His full given name appears to have been Bartholomew. He is recorded in the land transfer records of Ettensweiler in 1652, probably for selling land there; the land was probably his father's. Those records show his name as Bartholomäus Probst, a more correct German spelling.</p><p><p></p></p><p><p>He must have left Ettensweiler for Der Pfalz shortly thereafter, for he was married in January 1653 in Kandel. Bill Brobst has a copy of the marriage record, in the German Pfalz file.</p></p><p><p></p></p><p>Will was probated in 1715 in Kandel.</p>

Bartholomew married Susanna Fischer 18 Jan 1653, Kandel,Pfalz,Germany. Susanna (daughter of Bartholomew Probst and Susanna Fischer) was born 14 Feb 1630, Kandel, Der Pflaz, Germany; was christened 14 Feb 1630, Evangelisch,Kandel,Pfalz,Bavaria; died 25 Apr 1705, Kandel, Pfalz, Bayern (Bavaria), now Germany. [Group Sheet]

Notes:

 

Niklaus had either eleven or twelve children. One of them, Rudolph, is not shown on one of the original birth records from the old church, but other genealogists have placed him in this family. His birth year fits nicely in a gap that otherwise looks larger than would be expected in the family sequence.

His family records come from the parish archives, per Dr. Robert Oehler, Kasernenstrasse 21D, Bern, Switzerland.

Niklaus married Margreth 1577, Siselen, Bern, Switerzland. Margreth (daughter of Niklaus Niggli Probst and Margreth) was born 1557, Siselen, Bern, Switzerland; was christened , Siselen,Bern,Switzerland; died 1630, Siselen, Bern, Switzerland. [Group Sheet]

Notes:

 

Rudolph's wife's name is unknown. They moved from Bern to Germany around 1625 to Ettischweyl im Allgau (Ettischen) where he was a "Gemeinsman" or citizen. His only son Bartholomew left there to move to Kandel.

There is a question as to whether Rudolph was actually a son of Niklaus and Margreth, and a grandson of Hans (1531). LuAnne Brobst Staheli shows that lineage. However, the baptismal records do not show him in that family. But, if Rudolph was baptized by a travelling minister, that minister might have recorded the baptism at the minister's home church, thereby leaving the Probst's home church record vacant in that regard. Ms. Carolyn Price has challenged this birth line quite strongly on that basis. The record obtained from the church in Germany bears her out -- the name "Rudolph" does not appear in the list of children. Bill Rutledge may have just assigned him in that position because it fit so well! He may also have been the son of Benedikt Probst (1551) who lived in Lutzenfluh, Bern, Switzerland; the father of that Benedikt was Benedikt (1529), Hans' brother! The records show that Rudolph would have fit just as nicely in that family as well. Which family? Don't know, but it seems quite likely that it was one or the other.

The parish records, per Dr. Robert Oehler, Kasernenstrasse 21D, Bern, state: "Rudolph resided in Bern, then in Ettischweyl, Wangen, Kandel, and Minfeld, Germany." But did he move to Kandel with Barthel, or did he stay in Ettischweyl? It appears more likely that he stayed and died in Ettischweyl.

However, another record states he was born in Ettischweyl! Dr. Werner Esser of Kandel, writing to Alice-Ann Askew in 1992, states "Rudolph Probst ws born about 1590 in Ettischeyl next to the city of Wangen. He bases that on the Lineage Succession List dated feb 29 1992 from Kandel. It may be that since he came from Ettischweyl it was assumed by the Kandel authorities that he was born there. It seems well documented, though, that Rudolph was born in Switzerland. Further, the record of the land sale by his son, Bartholomew, in 1652, clearly states that the family origin was in the region of Bern.

Only one son, Barthel, is known in Brobst genealogical circles. There may have been other children. Certainly, it would have been unusual in those days to have only one child in the family. Hackworth/Staheli believe he was the ninth child, but that documentation has not been verified. Kandel records show only one son, Barthel, but then Rudolph never lived in Kandel.

What was Rudolph's profession? If we knew, that might help with the question of how the Probsts came to be Lutheran. Swiss Protestants generally came from the cities, but the farmers were Catholic. Since Barthel was a potter, does that mean that his father was also a potter? If so, then Rudolph perhaps would have been a Lutheran city person. In fact, the records unearthed by Alice-Ann Askew indicated that Rudolph was a "Gemeinsmann" or citizen of Ettischweyl. That term was usually meant a city dweller, not a rural dweller. A lot of conjecture here.

His death date is not certain. Did he die before 1653, causing Barthel to move on? Or did Barthel leave him behind, and he died sometime after Barthel left for Kandel? Bartholomew sold some land (probably Rudolph's) in Ettensweiler in 1652, then moved to Kandel. That might be an indication that Rudolph died in 1652, Barthel sold the land, and then split. But the Kandel Lineage Succession List mentioned above implies that Rudolph may have lived in Kandel for some time, although his death is not recorded there.

On balance of the facts, I believe that Rudolph was born in 1595 in Siselen, Kanton Berne, Switzrland; married there, and moved to Ettischweyl im Allgau, where he died around 1651/2.

Notes:

<p> </p><p><p>His full given name appears to have been Bartholomew. He is recorded in the land transfer records of Ettensweiler in 1652, probably for selling land there; the land was probably his father's. Those records show his name as Bartholomäus Probst, a more correct German spelling.</p><p><p></p></p><p><p>He must have left Ettensweiler for Der Pfalz shortly thereafter, for he was married in January 1653 in Kandel. Bill Brobst has a copy of the marriage record, in the German Pfalz file.</p></p><p><p></p></p><p>Will was probated in 1715 in Kandel.</p>

Bartholomew married Susanna Fischer 18 Jan 1653, Kandel,Pfalz,Germany. Susanna (daughter of Bartholomew Probst and Susanna Fischer) was born 14 Feb 1630, Kandel, Der Pflaz, Germany; was christened 14 Feb 1630, Evangelisch,Kandel,Pfalz,Bavaria; died 25 Apr 1705, Kandel, Pfalz, Bayern (Bavaria), now Germany. [Group Sheet]